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There has been a lot of media hype lately, saying that being gluten-free can give you diabetes. A new study from Harvard has found that adopting a gluten-free or low gluten diet can enhance your risk of developing type 2 diabetes. Frankly, I call bullshit, with so much overwhelming evidence that supports a gluten free diet as better for your health and well being. This latest “study” just doesn’t seem to be adding up. So why does going gluten-free suddenly give you diabetes? Discover the truth behind the latest study and what you can do to void type 2 diabetes.
Transcript and links for Is Gluten-Free A Scam? What Experts Don’t Want You To Know
The Ugly Truth Podcast Ep. 1.
George: Welcome back to The Ugly Truth. This is where we talk about topics affecting the
world, people and everything else like that. We’re showing, we’ve tried to distill, what’s really
true but also what’s useful because there’s going to be a lot of life hacks and showing you little
tricks on how you can do things better.
Christina: Yep. So basically we’re going to be cutting through all the red tape, through all the
media jargon to get down to what really matters, get down to the facts.
George: Christina’s going to cut through the red tape with a machete and cut it out.
Christina: Like ‘Kill Bill’.
George: That’s right. And the thing is we’re going to be sacrificing sacred cows, metaphorically
Christina: But it’s okay, no cows are actually going to be harmed in the making of this podcast,
so don’t worry.
George: That’s right. So what we’re going to talk about today, and something that’s close to
heart and mind, and that’s about gluten-free. I’m going to start this topic by pulling up this article
because recently it’s been on the news quite a bit.
Christina: Yeah there’s been a lot of stuff in the media.
George: So basically this is the headline: Gluten-free diet increases the risk of getting type 2
diabetes according to a new study. So Harvard University have been linking being gluten-free to
getting diabetes. We saw a program the other day on TV, I don’t remember what program it was
but what they were saying is, they were saying be careful. Don’t eat gluten unless you have to.
Christina: They actually even said that gluten can cause autism and can cause lots of problems
and when I heard this I was like wow. This is so wrong. Like how can this even exist? Like
people saying this and making this crap up!
George: Look, what amazes me is yes, they did a study and certainly there was a link in this
certain study – and I’m going to go through the mechanics in a second. However, what amazes
me is one study will do something and suddenly everyone will jump on the bandwagon and vilify
something that is good for you, you know what I mean?
Christina: Yeah, it’s crazy like the power that the media has. Like people won’t do their own
research. So they leave it up to the media these days.
George: To educate them and unfortunately the media doesn’t always do a good job.
Christina: And them hearing that gluten equals diabetes, people are just going to go, “Okay well
I’m not going to be gluten-free anymore”, which is such a shame!you’re
George: That whole week everyone’s going “Oh George you better be careful. You’re going to
get diabetes. Oh no George.” And this is a guy who was drinking a Farmer’s Union iced coffee
which is full of sugar. And he eats pies for breakfast and eats McDonalds, and he’s not worried
about himself. He’s worried about me getting diabetes where he’s actually…
Christina: I guess there’s two problems.There’s one, that people believe whatever they’re told
on the news and the media. That’s probably one of the biggest problems but the second
problem is this study and how it’s even come into existence and why they’re saying A equals
this, you know.
George: Okay, let me give you my take on this study. It is possible to do a study and show
people eating gluten-free have got more risk of type 2 diabetes, and I’ll tell you why. See the
typical person that goes gluten-free, they end up going to the store and buying all the
Christina: Which is in the health food section. The ‘health food section’.
George: The ‘health food section’.’Non-health food section’. Most anyway.
Christina: Which is actually unhealthy, full of sugar, because it’s sugar that gives you diabetes at
the end of the day.
George: Well carbs and sugar.
Christina: It’s not being gluten-free though.
George: No, it’s got nothing to do with being gluten-free. I mean…
Christina: It’s the sugar.
George: Gluten doesn’t stop diabetes, so the things is…
Christina: Because why would people with diabetes need to watch their insulin levels if it wasn’t
related to sugar. They would have to be watching their gluten levels otherwise wouldn’t they.
Christina. So there you go! I’ve just disproved their whole study! High five! God I’m smart
George: So basically as Christina said, which was beautifully said, if gluten was the culprit, if
you had diabetes, they would be saying you need to cut down on gluten. So you can see.
However, they don’t say that, they say cut down on sugar and carbs. Now, my take on modern
diabetes is really insidious, and it’s getting worse because of the big city epidemic and the
problem with diabetes is people are eating too much sugar. They’re drinking sugar. They’re
eating sugar. They’re eating carbs.
Christina: It’s in everything. It’s like hidden in absolutely everything. Like if you walk down the
health food aisle these days…
George: Or any aisle…
Christina: Yeah any aisle but even the health food aisle because usually they think the health
food aisle is healthy.
George: They do.
Christina: And if you actually turn around a packet of something that you think is healthy and
something that’s been marketed to appear healthy, it’s full of sugar and it’s full of crap.
George: Well have you seen those diet shakes. I’ve had friends be on those diet shakes.
Christina: Oh I know, they are so bad.
George: And all they do is replace their meals with a diet shake and I look at the ingredients and
the main ingredients is sugar. So that’s not going to help you, I’m sorry.
Christina: Not only that but it’s full of like processed crap. So all these numbers. If something
has to be a number that’s not good for you like, you know what i mean?
George: Exactly. A number is not really very natural. So the thing is what our beliefs are; if you
want to be healthy, can you eat gluten? Yes. But you shouldn’t. Because the thing is, let’s take
gluten out of it. Eating processed food whether you’re gluten-free or not is not really going to
help your health.
Christina: How did gluten come into existence? This is what I want to know. Like how did the
whole thing start?
George: Let’s talk about the history which is very fascinating.
Christina: Because obviously I know that it’s not natural so if you want to be healthy, eat whole
foods. It’s that simple you know. An apple is an apple. A banana is a banana. Because anything
processes is unhealthy.
George: Yes. So let’s talk about the history. Okay, so basically over ten thousands years ago we
just ended the Paleolithic period. We started the agricultural period. So basically humans for
several million years were hunters and gatherers. So what we did is…
Christina: And let me get this straight. So our bowels had only evolved up until the Paleolithic
days, correct? Because evolution is so slow?
George: Evolution is slow. It is like a snail. It takes a long time.
Christina: It takes millions and millions of years for any tiny little change to happen.
George: And evolution can happen fast.
Christina: Because I’ve had a scientist say to me, “Oh you know we’ve evolved to eat gluten”
and I’m like hang on, what?
George: So let’s talk about how evolution works. Charles Darwin, he’s the one that coined the
phrase of evolution and sort of discovered it, right, and now we have a lot more evidence on it.
However, see the funny thing about evolution; it only works quickly when a certain members of
species die quickly.
Cristina: Yeah that makes sense.
George: So it can work quickly.
Christina: Because they have to evolve or die basically.
George: So basically you look at the Black Plague that went through and just killed 40% of the
population, or whatever it was. That was fast evolution because anyone that was susceptible to
the Black Plague died. They were dead. That’s fast, right. But with gluten it doesn’t kill you
quickly. It makes you sick slowly so therefore you’ve got a chance to reproduce. As long as you
have a chance to reproduce you can’t evolve.
Christina: And it catches up on you when you’re older.
George: Yes. So things that evolve you are really survival of the fittest things that happen until
you have offspring. Once you have offspring there is no evolution for it. That’s why people get
sicker when they get older. It’s because we haven’t evolved in mechanisms to fix that because it
wasn’t that important to evolution.
Christina: So where did gluten come into the story?
George: Okay, so ten thousand years ago, this is the story, there was a bunch of paleo men,
hunters and gatherers, in the fertile crescent of Mesopotamia – what is now modern day Iraq,
Iran and Syria. Funny enough right there where we have all that conflict now, that’s where the
original civilization started in the world.
Christina: Is that where the gluten pioneers came from?
George: What happened was they started living less nomadic lives and they found out that if
they dropped seeds in a certain area, like wheat seeds, they’d grow and they’d be able to use
them the next day, and they kept getting bigger and bigger. So what happened was agriculture
was invented there. Which is amazing when you think about it. So for the first time in history
humans could actually stay in the same spot because hunters and gatherers, they need to
constantly move and and forage. So it’s quite a healthy lifestyle.
Christina: And forage, yeah. That makes sense. And move through the land to get to the next
source of food once they’ve used up that bit on the land.
George: So paleo man, we evolved. Paleo man was our highest evolution because we spent
millions of years as paleo man, and because of that we’ve evolved to be omnivores. You look at
our digestive tract it’s very similar to a bear and a pig. It’s not like a cow right. We haven’t got
four stomachs. We’ve only got one. So if you look at animals, they eat vegetables – those that
are vegetarians – they actually have got quite massive stomachs.
Christina: Well we obviously came from apes which were insectivores weren’t they?
George: We came from ape like creatures, not apes. Because we coevolved from them, so our
last common ancestor, the chimpanzee, is probably about six million years old. Ten million
years old. So we branched off the three great apes. So we’ve got bonobos, chimpanzees and
humans that are cousins.
Christina: Because a lot of people would argue and say, “Oh you know we’ve been vegetarian
for this many millions of years so we’ve only evolved up to eat vegetarian diet” but obviously
they ate a lot of insects which, the last time I checked, is not vegetarian on the menu.
George: Monkeys, if they can get meat they eat meat first before anything else.
Christina: Yeah so they are like opportunists.
George: Opportunities. But they are not good at hunting, that’s all. But humans had a lot more
hunting so they had a lot more meat. They reckon that eating meat and fish and protein is what
actually helped us grow our brains because our brains take twenty percent of our body’s energy
source, right. When you think about it, it’s only five percent of our weight but twenty percent of
our energy source so it’s very expensive. So you need protein and a lot of energy to do that. So
we eat a lot of fat, a lot of meat. So that’s going back to the paleo diet because that’s our natural
diet. We evolved to eat that. So then in agriculture when they study skeletons of paleo man and
then agriculture man, what they found about ten thousands years ago was the skeleton started
Christina: When they started eating gluten because it was stunting their growth, because there’s
no nutrition in it.
George: That’s right. Stunting their growth but not only that, they had more disease. You could
find more disease in their bones.
Christina: Right, interesting.
George: And two reasons for that; one is we started living in confined areas together which is
going to spread disease but two, you’ve got grains, you’re storing them, they’ve got mold on
them and everything else like that.
Christina: Causing inflammation in your body.
George: Yes. So grains have evolved, coevolved with animals, right. And they have co-evolved
with antinutrients that are there to stop you from digesting them.
Christina: So that’s why gluten equals digestion problems.
George: Yes, or any grain.
Christina: Because our bowel hasn’t evolved to digest it.
George: No it hasn’t, no. And basically that’s why cows have four different stomachs and
chickens have got a crop where they ferment the grain. So the reason being is…
Christina: So they can handle it.
George: Yeah you can’t eat the grain and just swallow it and eat it in a normal stomach like
Christina: So that brings me to the point where people are like, “Oh gluten-free, it’s only just a
thing recently that’s ah, you know, popped up. Why is everyone suddenly gluten-free?”
George: Well it’s not recent at all.
Christina: And this is my take on the whole thing. Well it’s a generational so, you know. So your
mother’s, mother’s, mother would have been eating a diet that consisted of stews with meat and
vegetables and it would have been like whole foods basically. And then maybe her mother had
a bit more bread and things like that in her diet so she’s passed that down to the next
generation where they’re becoming more and more sensitive and more and more allergic
because each generation is eating more and more processed food and more and more gluten.
So you look at the processed food what we’ve got that exists today. It’s more than ever before in
the world. I mean, look at India. India was, you know, one of the most malnourished countries in
the world and now is becoming one of the most obese.
George: Now the challenge is, as you were saying, in regards to processed food.
Christina: So that’s why suddenly everyone’s all ‘gluten-free’ because suddenly everyone is
super allergic and super sensitive, and seeing the side effects in early childhood such as myself
and my sister, you know.
George: We’re smarter now though. We are a lot smarter.
Christina: And obviously we are a lot more educated and we know what’s causing the stomach
problems and what’s causing the fatigue and the inflammation. But that’s why I don’t get that
suddenly it comes out in the media that they’re doing a backflip, you know what I mean.
George: But the media always wants stories that are going to be big headlines.
Christina: But as soon as we sort of discover what is going to make us healthy, suddenly
something comes out in the news that goes against that and it’s almost like it’s coming from the
pharmaceutical companies or something like that as well.
George: I don’t think pharmaceutical companies sell wheat. I think it’s probably coming from the
Christina: But how are they going to make money if people aren’t sick, do you know what I
George: Wheat is a very, very big business with a lot of money. It’s one of the biggest.
Christina: Okay, so it’s coming from the wheat board this propaganda.
George: I’m not saying it is. Who knows where it’s coming from? We can’t really speculate.
Christina: We can put two and two together.
George: Look, I don’t know but what I’m saying is this is the first time in history we’ve actually
had a surplus of food. So gluten wasn’t such a big problem a hundred years ago for two
reasons; one, it wasn’t as processes but two, we didn’t have a lot of calories.
Christina: Yeah! Well that brings me to a point that…
George: But do you understand about the calories?
Christina: Yeah. That brings me to a point where a lot of people say, you know, “Oh, I go to Italy
or whatever and I have bread there and it doesn’t effect my stomach and I feel fine. But then I
have bread in Australia or America and I feel so sick for days,” and we’re like well that’s
because it’s less processed over there.
George: Maybe. I’ve never been to Italy so I don’t know.
Christina: I don’t know either. This is what I’ve had people tell me.
George: I’ve heard that but the point is it’s not about the processing. It’s about how many
calories you have.
George: So a hundred years ago you didn’t get enough calories. So if you had a bit of gluten
your body would process all of it. When you have excess calories…
Christina: Like we do today.
George: …it causes problems. So if you were fasting and not eating a lot of calories, you could
eat just anything and you’d be fine.
Christina: Yeah of course you can.
George: Because your body can handle it. But when you have excess calories it’s a whole new
ball park and our problem now in the first world, now in the third world too, is you’re starting to
get people that are getting overweight because they are eating too much processed food.
Christina: An excess of food, yeah.
George: The challenge also, and why people are getting overweight, is; one, they’re eating a lot
of carbs that have not got a lot of vitamins and nutrition. So if you eat food and you don’t get the
nutrients you’re going to have a craving for more food. So having a natural paleo diet where you
are getting a lot of nutrition in your food satisfies you. So you don’t need as much because we
are both paleo and we love eating a lot of fat and a lot of meat and it’s very satisfying isn’t it?
Christina: High fat diet. Absolutely, yeah.
George: I mean we can go all day without eating and it’s fine, you know what I mean.
Christina: Yeah and some people might freak and go, “Oh my god. You go all day without
George: We are going to talk about that in another podcast because it’s important.
Christina: Yeah that’s intermittent fasting which is very natural for your body.
George: Now, you’ve been gluten-free for a while Christina.
Christina: Yes since I was sixteen I’ve been gluten-free.
George: Now tell me how did you become gluten-free and how did you know? Did you know
before or what happened there?
Christina: Well it’s really quite an interesting story because as a kid I naturally hated bread and
hated anything that would have gluten in it. But as a kid like obviously I didn’t know that I was
highly allergic to it. So I was diagnosed with celiac disease when I was 16. So I would naturally
avoid, you know, sandwiches or anything like that and my mum would actually like force the
teachers to keep me in at recess because I wouldn’t eat my sandwiches!
George: You poor thing.
Christina: So I wasn’t allowed out to play unless I ate my sandwiches. So I would force feed
myself these sandwiches and biscuits because I’d always come home and my lunch box would
be completely full and I would only pull the things out of the bread and eat the stuff that didn’t
have gluten obviously. So I naturally had this instinct to avoid gluten. It was really strange and I
never knew why but it started getting worse. When I was about 14 I started eating, trying to eat,
a normal meal and then as soon as it went down it would just come straight back up. I was that
highly allergic to it that I would just like almost projectile vomit every time I ate.
George: Wow. Your body knew.
Christina: Yeah it was fully rejecting it. Straight away and I was so frustrated. I was like, “Oh my
God I can’t believe I’m sick again!”. I was getting sick all the time and I always felt really tired
and felt like crap. But my sister was quite vocal about the way she felt about it and used to
always go, “Oh you know I’ve got a sore stomach. I’m not feeling well”. So she went and saw
like hundreds of doctors. I’m talking hundreds of doctors. It was crazy how many doctors she
saw. I saw a few throughout the years but nowhere near as many as she saw. They always put
it down to constipation or something else. They never actually said it was the gluten until I guess
the years went by and then gluten-free, gluten awareness started becoming more of a thing
because obviously doctors and people become more educated. So then in the early 2000s we
went and got the blood test that says whether you’re gluten intolerant. And my sister got that
and it came up that she was highly allergic and had celiac disease. And so she cut out gluten
and then my mum was like to me, “Oh maybe you should get tested as well, you know, that that
could be your problem,” and I said, “Yeah I don’t know, whatever.” I was just kind of casual
about it. So just went to the doctors and said I want a blood test for this. So I got the blood test
done and then before you know it, there you go! I’m allergic as well.
Christina: And I’ve been gluten-free ever since.
George: Absolutely. And when I met you, you really enjoyed your gluten-free food.
Christina: Yeah I loved it.
George: And know I think we’ve gone more of a paleo diet because it’s very easy.
Christina: Yeah, much more paleo. See I had no idea. I thought gluten-free food was healthy. I
had no idea it was full of sugar and highly processed and full of like all these hidden additives
and things like that. So yeah, when I first met George I was gluten-free and I used to have like
gluten-free bread, gluten-free biscuits, but that obviously contains a lot of sugar and I did
actually put on weight from being gluten-free, and it wasn’t until I became paleo that I really
started to thrive on that diet. And you know I lost all that weight.
George:You’re a lot stronger. You got more energy.
Christina:Gained muscle. Lost fat, you know. Just completely improved my whole situation.
George: Yeah, well I can’t believe how much more energy you’ve got and how much stronger
you are which is great, you know.
Christina: Well that’s awesome. Yeah.
George: Which is great. I think these days you really need to take care of your health. And there
is only one person that can do that. It’s up to you.
Christina: And if you’re naturally avoiding gluten then maybe you’re like allergic to it like I was.
George: Yeah, look, I think the other thing about gluten is even if you’re not allergic to gluten…
because I did the test and apparently I’m not celiac.
George: Right. However, I know that gluten stuffs me up, right. So I don’t care what the test
George: Basically – this is another challenge with gluten – basically what is does is it rips holes in
your tummy and actually gives you leaky gut. Now leaky gut is when you have bigger holes than
normal inside your stomach and particles from your food come out of the gut wall and into your
bloodstream and your white blood cells attack it and it almost creates an autoimmune condition.
And grains and gluten are really good at this. And grains are good at this because we haven’t
evolved to eat grains. Grains are very difficult to eat because they’ve got to protect themselves
because if grains did not evolve to protect themselves then they wouldn’t be here because we
would have eaten them all.
Christina: Oh, that makes sense.
George: So what happens is when an animal eats grains you can’t digest a lot of them. They
come out the other side and it’s got a bit of fertilizer, it grows. Now if they didn’t protect
themselves and every time you ate it, it got digested, grains would be extinct.
Christina: Yeah, wow.
George: So there is a lot of antinutrients in it. Especially one grain for example that is really bad
is soy. Soy has got a lot of really strong antinutrients and all these people are trying to call it
health food with soy, and it’s not healthy. It’s really bad for you.
Christina: Yeah see I was quite shocked to discover that soy is obviously not that good for you
because I love my soy lattes and just love drinking soy milk in general.
George: Yeah which is beautiful to drink. I love the taste but unfortunately it’s bad. It’s highly
Christina: So does soy actually do the same things that grains do to your stomach? Does it
punch holes in your stomach?
George: Yes. Soy is a grain.
George: Okay, soy is a grain. So a lot of things you wouldn’t realise are a grain are a grain.
Christina: Okay give me another example.
Christina: Well that’s an obvious one.
George: Rice. Rice is a grain.
Christina: See I love rice as well.
George:See I love rice too and I think you can have grains in moderation. But what you need to
do, what our ancient ancestors used to do with grains, they used to ferment them and sprout
Christina: Right, interesting.
George: For example, lentils right…
Christina: Is that a bit how you soak nuts and then it’s good for your stomach?
George: Oh okay, a nut is a grain, but a big one!
Christina: Oh! There you go!
George: So for example a nut is very hard to digest. There was one guy who decided to go on a
nut diet. Nothing else. For years.
Christina: He only dated nuts.
George: He was eating nuts for a long time and he actually destroyed his digestive system by
doing it, right.
Christina: Oh my god.
George: Because I’ve tried a lot of diets myself, you know. I’ve experimented.
Christina: Yeah, so have I.
George: I like to self experiment. When I was like total vegan and vegetarian, I was a raw food
vegan. That was hard. It was only food that was raw and vegan. I wouldn’t touch any animal
products and I wasn’t getting any healthier.
Christina: So you would have been eating a lot of nuts then in that diet.
George: Only raw yeah. Raw nuts, raw vegetables, raw fruit.
Christina: But that would have been very fibrous for your digestive [system].
George: Yeah, it was very fibrous for my digestive [system]!
Christina: Ha ha!
George: I was working out and not gaining any muscle.
Christina: Right, yeah.
George: I found it very hard to keep the weight on and I was feeling weak. I didn’t need a lot of
sleep funny enough. I could sleep four hours and I was fine.
Christina: That’s weird.
George: And I guess it was easy to digest but it wasn’t giving me a lot of nutrients.
Christina: Yeah, okay.
George: But anyway, the best thing I did was discover paleo after that, and become a lot
healthier. But that was part of my journey. I mean I guess you slowly sort of learn what you
Christina: Yeah, you’ve got to try different things.
George: The funny thing is a lot of times like because I’m gluten-free now, completely
gluten-free, we went to the vegetarian picnic recently and they’re like, “Oh we know gluten. We
are vegetarian. We’re the same as you, don’t worry!”.
Christina: Ha ha! So it’s funny that a lot of vegans think that being gluten-free means being
George: Almost vegan. Yeah, it’s weird because….
Christina: Yeah, but it’s not.
George: No. And look, if people choose to be vegan that’s fine. I get it. They love animals and
they want to do their health, however, there are two types of vegans. The vegans that eat all the
processed crap, and it’s a lot of fun to eat but it’s not good for you. You know, having fried
vegan spring rolls, deep fried… they’re not going to be good for you.
Christina: Yeah, right. That’d be quite highly processed.
George: Most vegan food is really highly processed.
Christina: But most vegan food would be full of soy as well.
George: And wheat. And highly processed soy.
Christina: Yeah, and wheat which is really bad for your health.
George: So it’s really bad. So there’s good vegan. There’s bad vegan. Just like with everything
Christina: Yeah. Yeah, of course there is.
George: It doesn’t matter what diet you’re on. Get rid of the processed crap if you want to do it
Christina: So paleo is the only real diet where you can’t eat processed…
George: No, no, no. Look, there’s a lot of paleo stuff out there now.
Christina: What’s bad in the paleo diet?
George: There’s a lot of new products out that are called paleo but are processed.
Christina: But they are obviously not paleo then.
George: But they call them paleo.
Christina: So it’s just marketing. So you got to make it yourself I think. It comes down to whole
George: Look if you want to truly be paleo…
Christina: Stick to whole foods.
George: There is a lot of things you can’t have; wine…
Christina: Well obviously.
George: …or cheese, or milk. But I think there are some modern foods that are okay.
Christina: I always say, “When people find out I’m paleo,” because I don’t go around telling
people. Obviously they just find out through seeing what I eat and what I don’t eat.
George: You know the first rule of paleo? Tell everyone you’re paleo!
Christina: Which is something I do not do.
George: Don’t you love those people.
Christina: But as I was saying, I think it’s basically I say I’m on a paleo based diet. So obviously
I am not paleo 24/7. I allow myself cheat days which I think it really important.
George: You sleep in a bed. That’s not paleo!
Christina: Ha ha! I don’t sleep in a cave, you know! I’m paleo based. Any twenty year old, you’re
paleo 80% of the time. That 20 % doesn’t really matter. You can add things that improve your
life or whatever. I have some soy lattes sometimes and, you know, I have coffee obviously.
George: Having a cheat day is fine but also I think that paleo is not the complete answer. I’m
creating a new definition because I think that a lot of the natural, traditional fermented foods and
broths are very important.
Christina: Yeah see I think that that is very important too.
George: And paleo man didn’t have broths and fermented foods but I think you know…
Christina: He didn’t have a big cauldron that he chucked some meat in and veggies?
George: No he didn’t have that. We don’t want to mis out on traditional food. So I’d liked to go
paleo / traditional. That’s what I’m thinking about doing because actually we are making a
yoghurt. We’re making some yoghurt tonight and it’s going to be twenty four hour fermented
yogurt because 24 hours is enough to get rid of the lactose.
Christina: So that’s going to have like good bacteria for your gut in it isn’t it?
George: Totally. Because I really want to start adding probiotic food and things with enzymes in
it and stuff like that, and that’s what we are starting to do at the moment with our diet which can
be very exciting.
Christina: Yeah sounds good.
George: Yeah, I can’t wait.
Cristina: So what is the one thing you miss the most? If you could pick one food that contains
gluten that you used to love eating before you were gluten-free?
George: Oh, okay.
Christina: I think I know what it is. Okay, let me guess. KFC?
George: Look, KFC is one of them. I used to love KFC.
Christina: But you answer for yourself and tell me what the one food is.
George: Cheese and ham croissants.
Christina: Oh yum.
George: Just totally amazing. Like wow. My mouth is watering. I mean I was working up in
Queensland and I met this guy who was quite overweight and I was eating KFC at the time. And
he looked at me and said, “George, you got to cut that out”. And I go, “Why?”. Look, he was
eating KFC three times a day. He was addicted. Anyway, what happened was he ate so much
Christina: MSG. It’s addictive.
George: They had to cut out his gall bladder.
Christina: Oh! Oh my god! See, that’s so sad.
George: And then he said, “Look, I’ve cut down to twice a week now and you should too”.
George: And I was floored. But you know what that really put me off KFC. I thought, I’m looking
at a guy who just got an operation because of it and I don’t want to do that.
Christina: Yeah it’s terrible what obviously processed takeaway food can do to your body.
George: Look the problem is processed food.
Christina: It’s addictive.
George: They mimic certain signals that paleo man found important. You know you’ve got either
fat and salt, or fat and sugar and crispiness, right?
Christina: Together yeah. Like ice cream is fat and sugar. That’s why ice cream is so addictive.
George: And fat and sugar together is just exciting. And if you have something crispy with fat
and salt, all those textures… paleo man was designed to really love that stuff.
Christina: Because it was really high in calories.
George: That’s right. See paleo man didn’t get to eat sweet things very often but sometimes
he’d find some honey and things like that and he went nuts! But that’s okay.
Christina: Are you going to ask me what’s the one thing I miss?
George: No. Okay I will. What’s the one thing that you’d eat if you could eat gluten?
Christina: I wouldn’t eat it if I could eat gluten. The one thing I miss that contained gluten; Tim
George: We got a whole packet.
Christina: Oh my god. We have a whole fridge of them! They were looking at me before.
George: The worst thing is when you go to a restaurant and you go, “Look I’m gluten-free. I just
want to make sure…” and they’re like, “Yeah of course. That’s not a problem at all”, and they
bring it out and it’s got piles of bread on top.
Christina: Oh that was so bad. Yeah that happened to me.
George: The problem is then you’re thinking, okay if they don’t know bread is gluten…
Christina: But what’s even worse is when they’ve got like a GF so it’s supposed to be gluten-free
and you tell them that it needs to be gluten-free and then they still bring it back with covered in
breadsticks and you like look at them and you go, “Um, I’m sorry I think it’s supposed to be
gluten-free. Remember I told you I’m gluten-free. Not only that, it says on the menu that it is,”
and then she picks up the salad and like scrapes off the bread stick off the top of it, leaves all
the crumbs and like chucks it at me and I’m like, “Oh okay”.
George: Look, being gluten-free can be a challenge, or any dietary requirements..
Christina: Because people think you’re just being difficult. They’re like, “Oh gluten-free. You
you’re so good”.
George: A lot of people do think you’re being different. What the challenge is I think…
Christina: See I think it just comes down to a lack of education about the subject and them not
knowing how bad it really is for people.
George: Yes but also I suppose we’re fortunate where we’re living in a society now where
people can be vegetarian or vegan and gluten-free.
Christina: Yeah. It’s becoming more accepted.
George: Twenty years ago, good luck.
Christina: Mm, I know.
George: But now at least, you know what I mean, it’s getting there. There’s different apps you
can use and I love using TripAdvisor because on there you you can choose gluten-free
restaurants that know they’re gluten-free and that helps a lot.
Christina: And that is really good when you go overseas as well.
George: So when you go overseas, because a lot of times they don’t know English and…
Christina: Trying to explain what gluten is, good luck!
George: When we were in Vietnam. It was difficult. I tried to explain anything. Remember when
they were giving me a cocktail and they’re pouring all the stuff in and I’m trying to explain, can
you please strain it?
Christina: Like can you strain all this lemongrass out of my cocktail? And they’re like… question
George: And they’re like, strain what? And I’m like getting the little bits and they’re like yes, yes
little bits. In the end I Googled YouTube.
Christina: No, you showed them a video of it.
George: Yeah I googled a video of how to strain a cocktail and showed them a video, and they
looked at me and said yes. What a great translation.
Christina:So if all else fails just show them a video of somebody not eating gluten. I don’t know
how you would do that!
George: That gives me an idea of a new app you know. Maybe a video having items and
showing them, you know, with little cards.
Christina:That’s a great idea I love that.
George: An app with video.
Christina: Like gluten / no gluten. Okay / not okay! Ha ha!
George: This is gluten and you go like that [gesture].
Christina: This one gives you diabetes (the gluten one). This one doesn’t give you diabetes (the
George: So I wish they’d have some real health studies out there that actually were important.
George: I think it’s important to realise that eating gluten-free and the wrong food can give
diabetes. However, we should really step it up.
Christina: I think what’s even more important is realising that gluten is bad, and then punches
holes in your stomach.
George: The problem with that study is they’re making it look like all you do…
Christina: They are demonising…
George: Not gluten-free.
Christina: …gluten-free foods basically. So that puts obviously the Paleo diet and everything…
like discredits it. Basically that’s what they’re doing.
George: Well what the study is doing is instead of saying hey you shouldn’t be eating processed
food whether you gluten or not…
Christina: So what seems like it really ia saying is that sugar and processed food gives you
diabetes, not being Gluten-free, yes?
George: Yes because it looks like the answer to this thing is eat gluten.
Christina: Yeah well that’s just the way they’re pushing their propaganda from the wheat board
George: Well I don’t know it’s from wheat. Let’s not make things up.
Christina: Well it’s got to come from somewhere.
George: The thing is though I’ve had people say to me, “I’m glad I’m eating gluten and maybe
you’re in the wrong.” I’m surprised, but they’ve said that to me.
Christina: That’s crazy.
George: They’re happy.
Christina: But what research and what…
George: They saw it on TV.
Christina: What planet are they living on?
George: They saw a study from Harvard University, quite a prestigious University. They’ve seen
it on television on the news, and they’re saying, “Wow, maybe George you weren’t right about
gluten and the TV is telling me to eat gluten. I can’t be stuffed working it out myself. I like gluten.
Now I’ve got a good excuse to eat it because it’s going to stop me getting diabetes”..
Christina: Right, yeah. See that’s the mentality people have. People want to do what’s easy.
George: Well let’s face it. We’ve got busy lives and it’s not easy doing things that aren’t easy.
George: That sounds like an oxymoron.
Christina: Ha ha!
George: Okay, it’s easier to eat something you like.
Christina: That’s available.
George: And getting a bit of justification.
George: [Easier] than trying to find something that really is going to be healthy for you. You
know what I mean. Because the problem is you’ve got to dig so deep. It’s not easy. There is a
lot of conflicting information out there. It’s almost like on purpose.
Christina: There is. There is so much conflicting information.
George: It’s like one person is saying gluten’s good, gluten’s bad. The Egyptians ate it and they
were fine. What about the Italians? They love pasta.
Christina: Yeah right.
George: You know what I mean. So I think getting down to the truth is the hard part.
Christina: So what’s the best way to cut through all that bullshit and get to the actual nuts and
bolts of finding out what is real and what are you propaganda?
George: Okay. Clinical studies are important.
George: That’s the fact of it but you can’t…
Christina: From Harvard University?
George: Yes, yes, yes.
George: Published peer review clinical studies are the gold standard, however, you can’t just
read one in isolation and think that’s the truth.
Christina: So you have to read like at least ten.
George: Well basically what happens is when you’ve got clinical studies they can actually
contradict themselves. So it depends on the sample size and who did the study and why they
George: So personally when I look at something, I like to look at people that have got results in
Christina: Yeah absolutely.
George: If someone’s going to talk about gluten I don’t want someone unhealthy saying…
Christina: Yeah I agree. Like a doctor who’s overweight giving you diet advice.That to me says
no credibility. I don’t care what degree or whatever. But don’t doctors only spend two days on
nutrition throughout their whole degree? Like two days! And that gives them a license to tell
people what they should and shouldn’t eat. That is just so poor if you ask me because two days
versus people who have had experience and results…
George: Doctors have got a lot of stuff to learn. It’s a big course, right .It is.
Christina: Yeah I know but I honestly don’t think that doctors should be giving people diet
George: No they shouldn’t.They don’t know what they’re talking about when it comes to diet. No,
they don’t. They’re trained in what drugs work with what.
Christina: That’s just crazy though that they have that sense of Authority because they’ve got
the degree. That they can tell people what they should and shouldn’t eat and people believe
them and take it as gospel. That’s what does my head in.
George: Some doctors actually know what they’re doing. Well that’s because they’ve done
further, further study and and they do some good stuff.
Christina: Yeah. I’m not saying all doctors. I’m just saying there’s certainly people out there…
George: But the ones that are just got out of school and have done no more study, that’s
different. A GP, they don’t really learn much about much. They’ve just got their stuff. They’re
Christina: So what annoys me is when doctors who are unhealthy say, “Oh you shouldn’t eat
George: Well on average doctors die younger than most people. And that’s the fact of it.
Christina: Wow. Why is that? Where’d you get that research from?
George: There was a little study somewhere that said doctors have a higher mortality rate than
an average person.
Christina: Is that because they’re constantly around sick people?
George: Look, a lot of them are stressed. They work long hours. There could be lots of reasons.
They either take their advice, take lots of drugs.
Christina: Take their own advice!
George: I don’t know. But certain occupations have different mortality rates. That’s the fact of it.
Christina: Yeah of course they do.
George: Yeah but the thing is I guess Western medicine is all about fixing the symptom, not
fixing the cause.
Christina: Not preventive measures..
George: I believe that medicine should get into fixing the cause.
Christina: Prevention is so much more important than cure.
Christina: Because instead of curing cancer, why don’t you prevent it in the first place?
George: If we can. The thing is we can’t always do that.
Christina: Yeah absolutely but why wouldn’t you try?
George: Well yes obviously. What they’re saying now is two-thirds of cancer, that’s the latest
thing, is actually diet and lifestyle related.
Christina: Well no shit.
George: But a third of it, you just don’t know, you know. It can happen. The problem is we still
don’t know enough about cancer and it’s unfortunate. But the fact of it is you can be really
healthy and do everything right, and still get it.
Christina: So what about – I guess this brings me back to gluten and the problems that it actually
causes – kids with autism and the correlation between gluten making their symptoms worse and
obviously making them autistic? Gluten and sugar.
George: Okay so that comes from the research by Natasha Campbell-McBride. So Natasha
Campbell-McBride, she – I’d love to interviewer her one day – she invented the GAPS diet which
is the Gut Autoimmune Protocol, right. And basically what this is is it’s actually taken this…
Christina: No it stands for Gut And Psychology Syndrome.
George: Oh really. Okay there you go.
Christina: Ha ha! So Gut And Psychology Syndrome. Yeah.
George: Okay That’s not Gut Autoimmune Protocol.
Christina: Ha ha!
George: Anyway, so it’s the Gut And Psychology Syndrome. So she had a child who was
autistic and she wanted to find ways of fixing her child and – she was a doctor – and she wanted
to find a way of doing it and she looked everywhere and she discovered that SCD diet, which is
the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. I’ve actually been on that. I know what it’s like, it’s awesome.
Christina: So that’s low carb high fat isn’t it?
George: Sort of. Basically no. It is just specific carbohydrate diet.
Christina: So you can only eat specific carbohydrates?
George: That’s exactly what it is. So Elaine Gottschall, she’s the one that came up the SCD diet
and what she was doing was she was helping kids with autism and crohn’s. What she
discovered was the villi in their intestines were damaged from eating too many carbs. Also they
had SIBO. Um, Small…
George: What does SIBO stand for? Small, Intestine, Bacterial, Overgrowth. There you go.
Christina: There you go.
George: Yay I got one right.
Christina: Ha ha!
George: Anyway, so basically what they did is they gave a specific carbohydrates and through
doing that they help repair the villi so after a year or two on this you can actually go
back to eating carbs, but not too many, because eating too many can damage them.
Christina: It can break it down again, yep.
George: So what’s a specific carbohydrate you ask? Good question.
Christina: Yes, what’s a specific carbohydrate George?
George: Okay, so different carbohydrates and sugars have got different bonds. So if you look at
sucrose, which is sugar, sucrose has got a double bond. So you got a sugar molecule here,
sugar molecule there and they join together like that [gesture]. Two bonds. So if you break that
down you’ve got to break one and then two. Very hard because they’re stuck together. Now
Christina: Is a disaccharide?
George: No. Sugar is a disaccharide. ‘Di’ – two.
Christina: Oh it’s a saccharide.
George: Saccharide. Honey has got one bond.
Christina: Yeah, I knew it was something to do with ‘saccharide’.
George: So guess what? How easy is honey to digest? Click. Done.
Christina: Easier than sugar.
George: So eating raw honey is just easier on the digestive system and you can actually
process it and it goes through. But a disaccharide, what will happen is a lot of it will be
undigested in the small intestines and then bad bacteria come in and start eating on that and
destroy your villi, and create overgrowth and Candida and things like that. So by limiting specific
carbohydrates what happens is you clean your system out of bad bacteria and yeast and
Candida, and by doing that long term you heal your gut.
Christina: So Natasha Campbell-McBridge… or is it
Christina: McBride, sorry. She actually cured her child of Autism didn’t she?
George: Yes so she went one step further.
Christina: Through inventing the GAPS diet.
George: Which is a take on this SCD diet. So it’s the SCD diet. But what we’re doing with GAPS
is we’re starting to focus on broths and fat, and actually have an introduction diet first to slowly
heal the gut before you go into SCD.
Christina: And you introduce one thing at a time don’t you.
George: That’s right. So basically it’s meat broth to start with and it’s just nourishing the body
and slowly. It usually takes about two years to completely heal your gut.
Christina: So how long did it take to cure her child of autism completely? Actually I’d love to
know like the ins and outs of that.
George: I know it takes a year or two to get there. However, you get pretty fast
progress with autism. When you introduce that food you can tell straight away so you can stop
Christina: You can see the symptoms obviously, yeah.
George: I read a book recently where another lady did it with her child and it took her about 12
months to completely cure him.
Christina: Yeah because it’s a slow process.
George: And she noticed that when he eats junk food once or twice it’s okay, but after a few
times he starts to get autistic again.
Christina: Wow! That’s amazing.
George: I guess people don’t realize about the gut and brain connection. So basically you got
more neurons in your gut.
Christina: Gut And Psychology Syndrome.
George: There you go. You got more neurons in your gut than you got in your brain. So a lot of
people get brain fog but the brain fog actually comes from here [points to gut] not from up here
[points to head].
Christina: So if you get you’ve gut right you’ll be able to think straight. Yes, that makes sense.
George: Having the right gut bacteria. GAPS can help with autoimmune type of Crohn’s. It can
help with our autism. Actually depression as well, because being depressed is having a gut
that’s not right too.
Christina: Yeah absolutely. So it can cure a whole host of health issues. That thing that came
out that said being gluten-free causes autism and they were trying to say that it causes it, which
does my head in because we’ve actually got so much evidence that…
George: If you look at that thing on TV they were saying it causes cancer too, being gluten-free.
Christina: Yeah. We have so much evidence that says that it actually cures cancer, cures
autism, it cures depression, it cures autoimmune. Being gluten-free and obviously paleo…
George: Yeah so you look at the modern diet, we eat more processed food than ever in history
and what’s happening? There’s more autism than in history, there’s more crohn’s, there’s more
Christina: There’s more depression. There’s more everything.
George: Well cancer kills one in two men now.
Christina: Yes thats crazy.
George: It’s crazy. So our modern diet has not worked. There’s evidence there because that’s
just a fact of it.
Christina: Okay what do you say when people are like, “Oh Paleo diet. Paleo man only lived
until he was like 20. That’s a shit diet.”
George: You know what, I get that. I understand that Paleo man didn’t live a long time.
Christina: What do you have to say about that then? The diet can’t be too good, ha ha!
George: Paleo man, if we look at their bones they’re quite healthy but you don’t get a lot of old
ones and the reason why there’s no old ones is because when you got Cyber-tooth tigers and
Christina: Cyber-tooth tigers! They were like made out of like computerised tigers that jumped
out of the computer. Cyber-tooth tigers!
George: Saber-toothed tigers. When you got lions…
Christina: Hologram tigers.
George: …You’ve got bears.
Christina: But also we didn’t have any antibiotics obviously.
George: No antibiotics. Antibiotics have changed everything. I mean you could get a scratch in
the old days and die.
Christina: So let’s say paleo man back in the day had accessed obviously modern technology,
antibiotics and there were no saber-toothed Tigers, how long would’ve he lived to then?
George: If Paleo man had thought of technology. he’d be in his cave playing computer games
all day. He wouldn’t live long at all. He’d be in the dark, no sun. Look, we can speculate. We
can’t say but at the moment we’ve reached – the oldest lady in the world is about, what 123
years old right – that’s where we’ve reached. That seems to be a limited at this point in time. She
wasn’t eating paleo but I don’t think Paleo would have made her live longer. She used to smoke
George: But she did calorie restriction?
Christina: Well every centarian, everyone who lives over 100…
Christina: Well you can look at somebody and tell whether or not they’re doing calorie restriction
just by looking at them. Are they skinny or are they fat? That’s how I tell.
George: Oh, you’ll get a lot of trouble for that one. It’s true though.
Christina: What? Saying you can look at someone and tell how much calories they’re eating?
George: That’s very controversial because a lot of people say it’s not about calories.
Christina: It’s evidence. But you look at someone. If they’re skinny they’re obviously eating less
calories. If they’re fat and overweight they’re eating more calories. It’s pretty simple.
George: Christina people are going to be upset about that.
Christina: What? About telling the truth? What do you want me to say, “Oh people that eat less
weigh more”. That’s just stupid.
George: You can’t weigh more eating less.
Christina: That’s what I’m saying! You can look at someone and tell whether or not they’re
George: Yes, but some people gain more weight from the same food.
Christina: Okay. Through genetics, because of genetics, because it has something to do with it.
George: And diet and lifestyle. Also like if you live in a moldy…
Christina: I’m not saying it’s everyone obviously, but obviously genetics and everyone is different
and you know you could do what’s right for you. But you can tell whether or not someone’s
eating more or less just by looking at them.
George: To a degree, yes. That’s a very black-and-white way of looking at it. To a degree, yes
George: That’s good. So well I guess that’s the gluten study and I think at the end of the day
there’s lots of good reasons not to eat gluten, and one because glutens processed. A lot of it is
not even organic and..
Christina: How could you get organic gluten?
George: You can. You can eat wheat.
Christina: Oh okay.
George: Of course you can.
Christina: I thought it was all processed and man made.
George: No, no. It’s processed man made but you can get organics stuff. Yes so the thing is I
think it’d be a smarter idea not to add gluten and replace it but replacing it with processed foods
is not really going to make a lot of difference. And having whole foods will be much better. And I
think we should stop listening to the crap on TV and believe all the crap that they say.
Christina: I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is do your own research. Find out
for yourself what’s really going on. What actually you know causes all these problems like
cancer and autoimmune or autism.
George: Look, everyone’s busy right.
Christina: If you really want to know though you need to find out.
George: What you need to do is find a credible source and let them do the research for you
George: If you follow someone long enough and know they know what they’re doing then you
can usually work it out from there, because it’s hard to do it all yourself.
Christina: Yeah of course it is.
George: You know what I mean. But you’ve got to get your information from someone that
knows their science, has lived it and does it and helps people. Like there’s a lot of stuff out there
you know saying if you go alkaline you’re going to cure cancer.
Christina: There is a lot of contradicting information out there.
George: It’s very complicated. Look at Steve Jobs, I mean richest man in the world and he
couldn’t beat cancer which is quite sad. You think he’d have a lot of resources at his fingertips.
Christina: Yeah absolutely. I think it was stress that did that to him to be honest.
George: I don’t know. He seemed to be flying and doing really well and everything else. We
know his internal, what’s been happening. I watched the documentary about him. He was an
Christina: But to have the company that he did you’ve got a lot of people underneath you, you
know. You’d be stressed out.
George: Look a lot of times the more successful you become the more stressed you can get,
depending on your attitude. You know what I mean?
Christina: Yeah absolutely.
George: I means nothing’s easy in life I suppose. But I suppose being unsuccessful would be
stressful as well. If you lived on the street that’d be stressful too in it’s own way.
Christina: Yeah definitely.
George: Yeah so I think at the end of the day… how are we going to end this.
Christina: I guess don’t believe everything you see in the media.
George: No, exactly. You know what, if you’ve got something in the media that doesn’t sound
right, email us at The Ugly Truth. We’ll do our research and get down to the bottom of the truth
and work out is it real or is it not. This one has been busted. It’s fake. The whole thing is…
George: I call it busted definitely.
Christina: It’s been busted.
George: Yeah. So eating gluten-free in a healthy way is not going to give you diabetes. I’m not a
doctor but I can say that as a fact anyway, because it’s just stupid.
Christina: You’re not a doctor so I don’t believe you. Kidding.
George: No, but what you said before made a lot of sense. If it did give you diabetes then
maybe all you’ve got to do it…
Christina: You’d be testing your gluten levels, not your insulin level.
George: That’s right exactly.
Christina: Because what do diabetics have to test? Their insulin levels which is sugar, goes up
George: We’re both gluten-free we check our insulin levels and our insulin levels are pretty low.
Christina: Yeah, mine’s perfect. Just saying.
George: And I’ll release in the show notes what is the ideal insulin level because it’s not actually
what your doctor tells you.
Christina: I’d like to put on my website as well what my actual readings are for everyone to see,
so I’m being fully transparent.
George: Well your readings are actually between 3.8 and 4.6 in the morning.
Christina: High five!
George: Which is perfect.
Christina: Before I eat Tim Tams, which I do not eat!
George: We’re ketogenic most of the day anyway and our insulin level is very low. We’ve been
trying to get there and it’s very important. It took me awhile to get my levels down to where I
Christina: And now you just want to copy me and get them down to my level.
George: But you’re younger. So it’s easier. It’s easier when you’re younger.
Christina: But lead by example. That’s what I say. Also you’ve got to lead by example. If you are
living a healthy lifestyle and you are obviously practicing what you preach then you have the
right to share your knowledge and let people know what’s working.
George: Exactly. So really cudos to the people out there that walk their talk, right.
Christina: I totally agree.
George: Because there’s nothing worse than a hypocrite out there going, “Don’t eat gluten,” but
they eat gluten or you know, “Lower your insulin,” but they don’t lower it.So we’re not so going to
talk about anything unless we can actually do it ourselves here, you know what I mean. That’s it,
Christina: Yeah I agree.
George: You know.You have to practice what you preach.
Christina: I think that comes with being a biohacker as well. You’re always like experimenting
and looking for ways to improve yourself and actually trying it yourself. That’s what I love doing.
I get a lot of joy from actually trying out new things that I hear about and seeing if they work or
George: Well that’s what we’re doing at the moment. We’re actually, talking about the GAPS,
we’re actually on the GAPS.
Christina: We’re doing the GAPS diet. Doing it ourselves.
George: And we’re doing it ourselves.
Christina: And I’ve been feeling so much better. My stomach used to hurt because I had coffee
every day so I’ve given up coffee, which is very sad for me to do. But I’m not going to give it up
forever. Just until I heal my gut. Until I get to a stage where I feel like I can handle it again.
George: Totally and you know what, it’s been interesting. We’ve learnt a lot of stuff.
Christina: [We’ve] given up alcohol.
George: And we’re fermenting our own foods now and starting to do that. We’ve given up
alcohol and coffee.
Christina: Making yogurt.
George: Caveat: we do have alcohol once a month, on a special occasion.
Christina: Yeah cheat day. Everyone needs a cheat day.
George: We have a once a month cheat day and that’s, you know, if there’s an engagement, a
wedding, you’ve got to have a bit of fun.
Christina: Yeah special occasion. Totally.
George: Awesome. Well guys great having you on. Thank you for listening. Thank you so much
for your time and we look forward to seeing you at the same time, same place next Tuesday.
Christina: See you… not next Tuesday. You can’t say a day!
George: Oh you can’t say it’s Tuesday?
Christina: No, we look forward to seeing you next time, joining us here on The Ugly Truth next
George: Next week.
Christina: Thank you, bye!